This last card for the week came about from a Twitch TV match where the Fusion Dance was played… and neither the players nor any of the spectators seemed to know how Fusion actually worked. It turns out that it’s actually pretty terrible and complicated. So let’s just go with this.
So if you ever wanted to play with a Fusion personality like Gotenks, Vegito, Den-Goku or Hercule-Goku for whatever reason, now you can! I just feel kinda bad that we didn’t make a Gogeta now.
Tune in next week, when we try to help an old villain who has been down on his luck in the game.
I feel like this might be too good… I mean, you can play goten/kid trunks, south kai for the other, search this out with krilln’s concentration, etc. and you now have a 7mil personality with 2 7 stage physicals for the rest of the game.
and i’m sure dbm would break den-goku with concentration drill or something.
sadly since Lord Slug concentration drill doesn’t really do much any more. This is definitely powerful but I don’t feel its that broken. After all, it can be TES’ed, and allies can be removed/discarded.
Sensei Deck some Majin Buu’s Stomachs. TECH, HO!
Black Scout Maneuver for me please.
Hmmm… this is interesting – I definitely plan on playtesting this a bit. I’ve drawn up a preliminary decklist that attempts to abuse Orange MBS/South Kai with Z Warriors Gather, Dende, and Gotenks – using Uub’s Energy Drill, Orange 5-finger focus, and Vegito’s Drop Kick.
First test I ran, drew a lucky COGD + Fusion Reborn – COGD’d TES, South Kai’d for Dende and Fused first turn. Then Masteried the COGD away for another COGD naming Stomach and a Focusing Drill…
Later in the game, ZWG led to a Gotenks that could do almost 20 LC with Vegito’s Drop Kick, and that was after O5FF (which essentially costs nothing with Den-Goku) was doing 24 (3 uses) off Uub’s Energy Drill. Ended the game with 0 discards and a very small RFG pile.
Will playtest a lot more for you guys and get back to you, I’m definitely less worried about Gotenks as an ally (due to ally hate), but if you wait to pull Dende until you’re ready to fuse, anti-ally won’t do much in that regard.
Could also just be another outlet for an overpowered Orange MBS deck and not that Fusion itself is broken…
You cheated against yourself during testing. You cannot discard COGD with the Orange Buu Mastery.
Ah! Good catch – been so long since I used that mastery I forgot it was only Orange Drills – whoops.
Thanks for that – future playtests will be void of such mistakes =P
Thanks SSJ Gotenks, let us know what you find. I do agree that Orange MBS is overpowered compared to other masteries, and Fusion would just be a way around leveling to protect your drills.
Whaaa??? Fusion Confusing? Or “Fusion Con-fusion”? (Haha, made a funny)
TBH, I had never heard people complain about the Fusion Mechanic being confusing, just very difficult to pull off. I also thought people reserved that complaint for Augment… =p
It was only confusing because none of us had ever done it before or played against it before and the Fusion Dance doesn’t even tell you how to Fuse. It’s all in the rule book.
I don’t think Fusion Dance rules are even in the CRD (I think that’s where I looked during said recorded match). Speaking of which, should probably update that to include things like this and CCPP special rules and such that were made elsewhere but not put in the CRD.
i think this could be a little overpowering. why wouldn’t every goku freestyle deck run a vegeta and this fusion reborn card? goku physical with 12 mil. power level and +3 life cards (because it is goku named) and it still goes twice AND draws another card if successful. it just sounds too much. i know because i tried a deck like that, but it didn’t work just because it’s too easy to discard potara earrings. please let us know when someone does some playtesting.
i meant goku physical attack (attack is missing in my original post)
Yes cards can discard/remove allies – you pull this off and fuse with your MP though and the Fused character becomes your MP. Yea this can be sphered but this card I definitely think is too good. A potential 1st turn Vegito or Gotenks with nothing anyone can do about it sans Majin Buu’s Stomach or similar is beastly.
I understand you guys are making new cards for the game and all that. In my opinion, most of the Virtual Cards are incredibly broken and will break the game beyond what it is now.
Vegeta Level 1 – no allies being Discarded
Tapion 1-4 – GG on Turn 1
Now this – Seriously?
Take what you want from this but whatever guys.
Vegeta: Because there’s no cards that prevent the use of allies, increase an opponent’s level, or shut off their powers, right?
Tapion: Even before he was fixed to not go infinite, he still didn’t start until at least turn 2. And he was fixed, so…
“Now this”: Great feedback. Amazing support for your claim, as always.
Vegeta. Tapion. Any number of different Fusion variants. Can’t wait to see the varied field at Gen Con!
“cards not worth playing, are not worth making”
eh its the same old story. You re touching sacred ground and ppl with ego problems are gonna be pissed and refuse to use any cards they themselves had no part in making.
Also you need to give videl a new lv 1 or hell even a new playset cus shes one of my favs and sucks ass, even if everyone played majins shed still suck.
Yeah, we noticed. No big deal though, we do like getting responses. We prefer it to be substantive responses, but responses none the less.
As far as Videl, there had been some requests for her getting a level 4 but in all honesty she has no real theme except for being anti-Majin. We really didn’t know what to do with her. In hindsight, we could’ve given her a Lv.1 power like Raditz has.
How about a card like “Majin Curse” that can act as a variant of “M”? You can turn your opponent into a majin for combat, a turn, while attached, whatever. It would make a whole lot of cards very useful again!
You could even balance it out by giving the personality it’s attached to a damage increase, which would match the flavor of the show.
Well a lv 4 wouldnt do anything, that lv 4 could have a power that says you win the game and she still would suck. As far as what to base her around, I think going the saiyagirl route is the best way to go. Make it so she works with saiyaman or something. I always thought it would be cool to enable them both to start in play and could use each others powers whether or not they were 0 or 1 above.
Am I a well-known Old Z player? Nope. I do know the game well though (atleast I think I do.) I appreciate what you guys are doing, it’s great that someone is doing it.
I just think, as do many others, that alot of these cards are too good. I understand there will be a power creep – alot of the KBS cards were stupid good. I understand this is a 12 year old game and that this is your site and your tourney you’re running. I get all of that.
People play this for the nostalgic reasons. All this virtual card crap, for alot of players, is a turn off. Other than myself, I know Bondi thins the same.
Anyway – Tapion – what did you guys do to change him? The only thing I saw was you changed the Level 4 to gain 1 anger instead of 2. Is there something I missed?
his level 4 RFGAU’s sword cards now. He can still get off a very strong combat or two, but can’t loop.
As DBM said, which is the exact same thing I pointed out to you when you made a stupid comment in the article itself about his power being changed? So you actually missed it twice.
As for being turned off by virtual cards… don’t use them? If you don’t even want to play against them, then don’t play in the tournament. Set up your own. But don’t bitch because others, who are using their own time and energy to set the tournament up, aren’t abiding by your whims.
Geoff, this is what you said…
“Tapion: Even before he was fixed to not go infinite, he still didn’t start until at least turn 2. And he was fixed, so…”
Thus, I obviously missed something which is why I asked for an explanation which Dave gave me.
As for the second comment – I’m not complaining because they aren’t abiding by my whims. I don’t plan to use these cards at all. However, if my opinions can help Retro out at all, I’m going to give them.
Geoff, I’m not attacking anyone, haven’t been, and don’t intend to. Chill out dude.
Deltree, Geoff wasnt referring to this topic. You need to go back to the tapion article where they made the change.
As always, we expect and even welcome criticism and input, but to be taken seriously it needs to be backed up with something substantive. How does a comment like “Now this – Seriously?” help us in any way?
Past accomplishments and years playing this game are irrelevant and I’ll give you a good example of that. Sayjin, DiCarlo and Orange Hat Guy all thought that Nappa’s power is too much. All of them are my friends, won events, and have played the game for years. DBM, Garrett and I each did our own playtesting on him and found that while he can be powerful, he is not broken. In fact, we discovered that Raditz had more consistency than Nappa.
It’s what I’ve been saying all along: If you want to be taken seriously then you need to give serious input. Saying things that are devoid of any rationale or stuff that sounds like you’re just making it up (“a lot of players say this, a lot of players feel that”), results in the responses the community has given you thus far.
Makes total sense Joshman. I understand and agree playtesting is needed. And you’re right, comments like “Now this – Seriousy” – aren’t helpful. So I apologize.
All I know is that some cards can be broken just by understanding the game, the cards in the game, and how the new card is used. This is not the case for everything (your above example of Nappa). However, Tapion is a good example of this.
I don’t have the time nor the interest to playtest, thus this is the extent of my comments. I’ll attempt to be as helpful as I can then.
if you have no time or interest in the new V cards why make any comments on them when your not gonna have any substantial proof to back up your claims. You ve already stated you dont like the idea of the Vcards so what kind of useful imput can you make?
Just because I don’t have interest in playing with them myself doesn’t mean I don’t thoroughly enjoy the game of Old-Z and want to assist in helping it flourish if at all possible.
And like I said, there is more than just actual Playtesting that can be helpful.
Absolutely. You’ve got a lot of people here that love playtesting, and have done it professionally.
Don’t be afraid to propose a deck, a concept, or a combo for the purpose of having others test it. We will be happy to do so, and give credit where credit is due!
Me and DBM are in sync and can now perform the fusion dance.
I shall Sphere your ‘N Sync moment 🙂
You need to Startle our Fusion Dance :p
HA, yea…
Good point. Was thinking you’d be using the new card.
I’m not ready to commit to a permanent Fusion yet.