Over the years as people loose or throw away the the various rule books and tip cards for the game the CRD becomes more and more the main rules document that people use for the game. Through out the years some of the niche rules fall off or never were never on the CRD because of how little play the cards saw when the game was in print. One such thing was all the little Future Gohan character rules. All of the rules list on the tip card below with the exception of the ally rule which is trumped by the updated Retro ally rule have been added to the CRD.
Since we are talking about the CRD. I would like to take this opportunity to release an updated watch list for people to take a look at.
Watch List – cards that will be watched and could receive the potential listed changes if they prove to be overpowered or have a negative effect on the game
- Krillin’s Concentration (Limit 1 per deck)
- Piccolo and Heroes Gather (limit 1 per Deck)
- Vegeta, Settled Down (??)
- Hercule’s Amazing Technique (Limit 1 per deck unless your main personality is Hercule. Or possibly only search for “Sensei Deck Only” cards)
- Long Journey (remove from the game)
- Black Weakness Drill (Either restrict, ban or Tuff Enough only)
- Trunks Finds the Answer (Limit 1 or 2 per Deck)
- Goten, of the Ring (remove the card drawing ability)
Later BroZ
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[enter southpark meme]
If some of these cards were nerfed before Gencon 2014, I would be soooo happy.
Especially Piccolo and Heroes Gather (which IMO puts Baba over the top), Long Journey, and Black Weakness Drill.
LMFAO when I PAGH for 2 confrontations against you yesterday.
Ya, that’s fair.
I’d say trading 5 cards (PAHG, discard 2, and 2 confrontations) for choosing two of your opponent’s is fair.
I also feel that the only things that cause PAHG and KC to be over the top have been Retro changes (HAT, Baba), and such should be looked at before changing these cards. They are cornerstone in all control decks and non-combats have to be high impact cards like these to find there way into decks. When you draw a random 3, the non-combats you play have to be a certain power level to be worth drawing into them as the defender. Limiting these would be gutting all control decks more than 50 cards.
The only reason I’d feel bringing up Finds the Answer to limit (2 at most) is because Speedy Flight is so off the wall fantastic. Realistically, though, you should be removing them and Slice from the discards. If Finds the Answer was brought up, I’d like ZWG on the watch list as well, since it effectively does the same (offer a massive amount of attacks quickly once a condition is met)
the problem i have with trunks finds the answer is that it was made in a time when there were only a small grouping of trunks cards, mostly with bunk poop effects. now we have sword slice (which should have “Remove from the game after use.” added to it, since it already tutors a card as is) and speedy flight… and, of course, sphere. on top of huge damage modifiers, great personalities that can abuse these cards, etc, etc… Trunks Finds the Answer should get limited in some way just because trunks freestyle can do some unholy things due to massive hand sizes and looping.
PAHG is extremely overpowered in decks where you can have a set up, wipe your opponent’s hand of any offense and then go rabid on their ___ with ally beats, Trunks sword loop stuff, etc, etc. You can draw mostly bunk and two good cards and pitch the bad stuff for two confrontations and then win in one turn. PAHG is not as good as KC, and i’ve always thought KC was overpowered.
but, at this point, i’d be content if Long Journey was RFG because that card is broken. lol
PS: didier, i love watching your matches.
There are many decks that can output that much damage early game. Yajirobe was likewise created after ZWG and his interactions with that card can perform just as many if not more attacks in a single combat. And anyone can do that combo; I do it all the time in Krillin Freestyle. The only thing that can utilize Trunks Finds the Answer is Sword decks.
What exactly combat cards are you fearing being tutored out? Do your decks play Majin Buu’s Fury? TES?
KC and PAHG have ton’s of counter play against them in addition to being non-combats – a huge disadvantage. Think of the other setups that are actually used and their effects. They all are a step above combat effects, WTLTH, Fatherly Advice, Expectant Trunks, because you can only play them on your turn. KC and PAHG are not as good as these listed and should not be limited.
Other non-combats on the watch list, like Black Weakness Drill, should be limited since to removes a huge part of the decision making of this game. Not being able to hold a card has to be one of the most crippling things you could do to an opponent.
Hey thanks 😛
Trunk’s Flight already has RFGAU on it, I would agree Finds the Answer should have it as well. Slice is an if successful effect that can’t search for itself, it’s only secondary if you can put a GSPD out, so its a solid card but not that great that it needs errata.
These alternate personality rules still baffle me. You can mix toddler gohan and Mystic Gohan personality levels, but not future gohan and Teen Gohan levels. You can mix a Saiyan Saga Vegeta lv 1 with the world games saga lv 2, but you can’t play the world games saga lv 1 with Majin Vegeta lv 2. The Majin ally rule is stupid as well. You can run Majin Vegeta as Pui Pui’s ally, but can’t have Cell and Babidi team up?
Silly, silly rules.
So does this do anything for “if used by Gohan”? Or still seperate personality rules?
They’re still separate personalities, so “if used by Gohan” or cards that specifically target Gohan will not work with Future Gohan.
i still think these future gohan rules are stupid…IMMEDIATELY after this insert was created (even though no one played future gohan) they were changed immediately…even silly score saw a problem with these stupid insert rules that had no backing from testing or gameplay loops…and that was BEFORE you guys created future gohan lv.4…I still say that jumping to lv.2 is too easy and then get card draw, immense power to lv.4 to make everything focused and do more damage is not cool…I plan on abusing this in gameplay, just saiyan…
Immense Power will still not work, actually, as it requires that your main personality is Gohan. Future Gohan can play it, I guess, but it will do nothing.
Glad there is some realization that Goten, of the Ring, has the possibility to just destroy decks turn one. That should probably be changed for sure.
Just checked the CRD for the changes, and the third bullet says “Future Gohan can have copies of each Gohan named card in his deck” I think the word or number 4 should be in this part somewhere right? Just want to make sure that it should state that Future Gohan can have 4 copies of Gohan named cards.
I strongly disagree with any restriction to Piccolo and Heroes Gather or Krillin’s Concentration. NO deck “abusing” those has won any event this year or last.
I also disagree with Black Weakness Drill. This is another card that hasn’t been abused in any tournaments this year or last.
Keeping Vegeta, Settled Down as is would also help curb any “potential abuse” from PAHG or KC. Along with Hercule’s Amazing Techniques. If people are getting curb stomped against those things, then maybe they should make a meta call and play Settled Down.
I agree with a restriction to Trunks Finds the Answer. And if not to it, to Sword Slice. Turning one card into 5-6 attacks is a bit much. Not to mention Trunks can grab more Slice’s with his power/Freestyle Mastery.
I’m not really digging the direction the game is going honestly. I don’t see how anyone would want to play when the environment is nothing but first turn ROFLstomp beat down decks where the game comes down to just who has a better opening 3 card hand. Basically is go fish.
I’d like to see these restricted or changed for sure
KC – i think piccolo and heros gather is fine since u have to pitch 2 cards to use it, but this card is more abuseble with Hat being essentially a wild card and other crazy combat cards like spooked.
trunks finds the answer – back when we had DP rule and speedy flights were hard to come by it wasnt a big problem. Now it is, so yeah should prolly get the limit 1 or 2 stamp for sure.
ZWG and/or Double whammy – these 2 cards make ally, which is already powerful, just silly. with yaj as mp or ally unless a beats deck draws fury, face slap, or something that removes the damage from game you basically cant enter on an ally deck cus you will just get ally smash once a zwg hits their dcp or ya hit a double whammy which lets em get yaj out.
LJ is a bit long over do, should have been removed when the game was still alive. It’d be nice if theyd get rid of the “cant enter combat for 2 turns” tag. Its a bit BS they cant be invited into combat.
Goten’s card draw is a bit much, especially when you can Advance basics his lvl 1 power and hit lv 3 which gives even more hand adv. It can put the hurt on the 1st turn.
So yeah id like the game to slow down a bit and not have all these cards/effects that let you do 20-40 life in a combat within the 1st few turns.
20 life first turn I would consider a losing combat for me. In goten testing I’ve done at worst 50 first turn consistently and 70 first turn at best. And my build was janky. A deck I just literally swapped the mp out with gotten.
That number isnt just for goten. If i can deal around 20 life in a non saiyan deck, id consider it a fairly successful turn.
I still think 20 would be selling yourself short. 40 is a good minimum for most beats to shoot for. Saiyan Broly, Red beats of various flavors, Trunks Sword, Bojack, pre nerf Buu Black/Red Buu.
Totally agree with you that double whammy needs to be on the watch list. I would like to see the allies searched in the next fight back phase but then placed in play at the end of combat.
While I think its great everyone can proxy cards. Some of the extremely powerful extra rates and promos will need some tweaking.
Also, I’m in favor of keeping PAHG, LCD, and long journey the way they are. There aren’t any decks that break them and control is already so much weaker than beat down.
Should be KC not LCD. Damn auto correct
I approve of this change. I have disagreed with the past CRDs for this exact reason, and the fact that it was NEVER in any previous CRDs before Retro. It has always been a rule that Future Gohan can run 4 copies of all Gohan named cards.
I’m reading the Goten, of the Ring personality level 1 card and I don’t see it saying anything about drawing… what am I missing here?