With Gencon around the corner we wanted to get out any crd udates well in advance so that people will have plenty of time to play test with the changes. For the most part all the updates are all card clarifications. With exception of one big one. After much discussion among ourselves and various members of the community over whether Buu was to powerful or not we have decided to introduce a new rule based on the original double power rule. The D Power Rule or “Overpower Rule.”
D Power Rule aka “Overpower Rule” – At the beginning of the game, if one player’s Main Personaltiy at 5 power stages above 0 is in the D Bracket or above on the Physical Attack Table, and the other player is not, the player in the lower bracket goes first.
The only character in the game that this effects is Majin Buu. But it does give a idea on what starting power levels we can give new overly powerful characters such as Janemba and Bills.
Huge fan of this.
July 7, 2013 aka Death of Majin Buu!!!! YAY!!
Death may be a strong word…it seems more like a paper cut that could get infected if left untreated. It IS a significant step toward balance. Who wanted to play Roshi in a serious tournament knowing you only have a 50/50 shot at not getting pwnd turn one by Buu?
Looks like we need googledoc permission to view the CRD
Seriously glad to see you guys do something about Buu. Though I wish there was a distinction between Fat and Evil since you are pigeon holed when declaring hero, something tells me that any alternatives would be overly complicated and invoke mass confusion. Good call on the D and above ruling. Simple, effective, and looking ahead.
I have adjusted the google doc permissions.
So just out of curiosity, what was the reasoning behind not allowing the KBS styled drills in freestyle?
Also, with the clarifications about Majin personalities, I assume that applies to Sensei decks so Ginyu can’t use Majin allies either?
It does. You can’t have anything in your sensei that you can’t legally have in your deck.
It has always been this way. Most of the changes are just clarificatiins of current rules and this is one of them.
How so? I ran Freestyle with the styled Kid Buu Saga Drills at last Gencon, and I have never seen a ruling against it. They specifically say: “[This card does not count toward or against Tokui-Waza requirements…”.
The ruling change does force my deck into one of the two direction I was possibly going with it, as it did not do so well in play testing. Still, it was quite heavy handed, and saddens me a little to see them go.
It shouldn’t have. If you ran them last year then it was a mistake that no one caught.
+1
+2…they were never allowed in freestyle
Wait, what? Not allowed in Freestyle…but they specifically say on the card they don’t count AGAINST TW requirements. I don’t know about that one.
Yeah, that sounds way out there with no justification whatsoever.
flipflopping hard still.
Yea I don’t really understand where this whole ‘you never could use them in freestyle’ thing is coming from. You can call ‘intended use’ all day on pretty much any card you want without much opposition, we weren’t there after all, but these cards specifically state that they override any TW requirements. Not having styled cards in your deck to declare a Freestyle TW is a TW requirement. Even on a balancing level it just doesn’t make sense to exclude them from freestyle. Not like it has some amazing drill tutors or effects that could abuse these drills more than any other deck (since, you know, they can be used in any other deck). It’s just a few extra lines in the CRD that don’t need to be there for any reason.
Didier you will have to live with it. Its the right call.
They clearly need to be in there since a lot of people have been playing it wrong. Even if it just said that they could be used, something needed to be saod about it.
I disagree with the ruling on the drills, but I woulf rather see the game change and evolve a bit than remain stagnant. A changing environment is what keeps card games interesting and competitive, and the changes I’ve seen thus far have really given the game a much needed rebalance. Since it’s a dead game and retrodbz is running the tournaments, they have every right to change some stuff up, but lets be greatful they put a good amount of thought behind things first. And we as a community have a much stronger saiyan things (haha) than we ever did with score (i.e. card creation)
tl;dr
I disagree with kid buu drills but like a changing environment, (enter feel good rant here).
-Mid
Remember though midgard, there are others running tournaments besides retro. The do get credit for gencon though.
We need a ruling for Z stages, who is going first? I assume Z stages since they aren’t technically in a bracket….
Both players start at five above and the player who goes first is randomly decided.
First, I’ve read and reread this comment and it comes off pretty harsh. Fair warning. I absolutely love what you guys have done with the game for the most part. It’s so much fun to go back and play this game with new cards and at least a little bit of tournament support. I’m very thankful that you all put so much effort in this and I hope you continue to do so. I want the Retro guys to know that it’s with the utmost respect and admiration that I post this:
1. The nerf on Evil Buu seems like too much to me. You make a rule that literally guarantees that Evil Buu goes second against every other character. Fine. You errata Evil Buu so that he doesn’t gain power stages off his card power. Fine. But both rules being enacted at the exact same time? I think someone is bringing the hammer down way too hard here. Especially considering the absolutely broken set of virtual cards that have been released for heroes in the past few weeks. I like heroes as much as the next guy, but they weren’t THAT under powered. I’ve been testing 24+ decks in my circle for going on 3 years now, and heroes just got way too much of a boost in the last few weeks. I agree that perhaps Evil Buu was over powered in the past, but there have been a LOT of changes to the game even in the past couple months due to these virtual card releases. I really don’t think Evil Buu needs to have his power nerfed on top of that.
2. A lot of people are defending the “no KB styled drills in Freestyle” decision with arguments such as “it’s the right call” and “it’s always been that way.” As someone who reads the text on the cards and actually tries to interpret how they apply with respect to the CRD when building a deck, the logic is completely upside down. The literal text of the cards: “This card does not count toward or against Tokui-Waza requirements…” It doesn’t get any clearer than that. This is a completely arbitrary ruling, and if enforced should naturally apply to every other Tokui-Waza as well, since the text from the CRD states that to declare a Tokui-Waza of a specific style your deck must contain “only styled cards that match the style of your Mastery card.” What’s most confounding is that there isn’t even a broken combo or problem with the game that this rule fixes. It’s just a change for the sake of change.
Again, I’m fond of what you all have been doing, but I’m concerned that the majority of these rules are being put in place because of a small group who wants to see their decks work. I’m concerned that their decks are getting beefy cards and boosts, while decks that are proven to work are getting nerfed or modified.
Does anyone else think that bojack was actually better than buu?
+1
I don’t understand why the kid buu drills thing was changed at all. People are saying “It has always been this way” but the card states quite clearly that it doesn’t count for or against TW reqs, so I guess I’m just not seeing anyway this could be interpreted as not being allowed in freestyle. Freestyle is still a TW.
If it’s a balance thing, that’s different of course, but I also don’t really see any particularly powerful combos happening in freestyle with these drills. It just seems kinda arbitrary. That being said, I don’t really think it’s a huge problem – freestyle will survive without them.
Hey guys,
If im correct, the reason for that ruling was that freestyle technically is not a style. When declaring Tokyo was, for a style, it just stated in the rule book that all of your styled cards had to match.
When freestyle monasteries were introduced the wording was you could declare freestyle of, and only if, your deck contained zero styled cards.
Thus, while the card does not count against a tokui waza, it is still a styled card, thus the ability to include it in your deck isnt affected, since you would have a styled card in your deck, per building regulations.
I guess I can understand why the KBS drills are not allowed in a freestyle because there is no chance of every getting rid of them after entering play. Let’s be real here, if someone had 3 saiyan aggression drills that you could never get id of it would be pretty dumb as with any of the other drills, Still wish it was allowed though 🙁