This week marks the finally of part one for the 2013 Virtual Set. We want to give some of these cards time to simmer, and make their way through the online and live circuits. So we decided to round up some old favorites for the mid-season finale. We weren’t sure if we should go with Captain Ginyu or the Ginyu Force for a new personality set, but ultimately the decision came down to how best to introduce and include members of the Ginyu Force that had not been in the game yet, and ultimately Captain Ginyu was the way to go.
Where Ginyu really shines, is that he may be one of the best 1-3 Most Powerful Personality Characters since Majin Buu Saga Goku (so watch out, Bojack). Having access to some really great powers, like Broly’s, Android 17’s, Dr. Wheelo’s and Zarbon’s can really help you jump up to Lv. 3 as fast as you can. Packing a copy or two of Virtual Card Just Saiyan could actually win you some quick anger games. Heck, even a well timed Krillin’s Thoughts with Dr. Wheelo’s power could instantly spell the end for speed ball decks. Ginyu has a lot of potential in many different areas, but like in the show (and reflected by his Lv. 3’s power levels) he can’t maximize the powers he steals to their full potential with any given deck.
You can’t just pack all Constant Combat Power personalities in your Sensei Deck though. For your Lv. 3, you really need to have some good finishing Lv. 1 ally powers. Rest assured, there are a few. The Virtual Cell is a decent choice, potentially allowing you to get two copies of Cell Smiles out for the next combat. Ultimately, fellow Ginyu Force member Guldo is one of the best personalities for Captain Ginyu Lv. 3, and can really spell the end for an opponent. In fact, Guldo’s power is so awesome that we felt there was no point in making a new Guldo for the Virtual set. We did, however, make a new version of every other Ginyu Force member with a power (not Constant Combat Power) that really works well with Ginyu, either as an ally or in the Sensei Deck.
Check back tomorrow for a first ever alt art Virtual Card. Later, BroZ!
These cards are clearly broken. I don’t know why you guys keep making all of these broken cards. Having the ability to use Saiyan Energy Deflection 6 times a game is WAAYYYYYYYY too good and should never be allowed in this game.
uh, goku bulma and froug don’t have saiyan energy deflection, so it’s obviously fine!
Disregard above, I don’t know why it didn’t click that you could just put a raditz in your sensei deck. Nerf this personality set immediately!
You can’t put the HT Raditz Lv. 1 in your sensei though, so I don’t know what’s with all the broken talk.
Thats true. It might be ok without the HT. I’m gonna have to do testing with other raditz levels to know for sure though.
I think we should ban Saibamen since you can level up and Ki Push and use Saiyan Energy Deflection TWICE in a single combat! More if you get to zero with Raditz, Nappa, and Vegeta in play.
How is that OP? You only get one personality power per combat, and according to the CRD you can only use saiyan energy deflection once per combat… It’s just like giving Ginyu a weak “Stops an energy attack” power plus the attack would still be successful.
You just don’t understand the beauty of Saiyan Energy Deflection. Re-read the power a couple more times and you will get it. It’s kinda like one of pictures where you have to find the hidden image, it’s right in front of you and you’ll think you’re stupid once you see it.
Don’t forget Saibamen are limit 3 per deck.
Neat. Should be fun.
Righteous!
Kudos for two things. First, really capturing the body change technique and making it into an arch type. Nice touch on the Goku, Bulma, and Froug……..Froug…lmao.
Second for bringing back one of my favorite personalities played in GT: Naturon Shenron. Such a cool concept and I imagine the decks around Ginyu will not only be fun, but very effective.
I completely forgot that personality existed until now. Wow, it is similar and one even has the same title. D’oh!
I don’t remember any GT cards after Super17 except the Masteries, so you can add +1 to not realizing it was the same premise.
Nice set guys can’t wait to give this one a try.
And as a second thought even thou you are not making a new guldo, (cause he is awesome) you should make a costume art card for guldo to fit with you virtual card set.
Looking forward to testing this guy out at the tough enough tournament on the 11th. I think he should be a fun deck to build.
Why the “If you haven’t used a Constant Combat Power” text? *confuzzled* Should probably clarify no HT’s in your Sensei. Q: Is the level 3 considered a Goku named card?
Good job on capturing the essence.
Chippy
1. So his power can’t be used multiple times by level jumping.
2. That’s a rule that has been in effect since Saiyan Saga (no HTs in deck).
3. Technically, as would Cell be an Android 20 card.
1) Since it’s a WEC power, you would technically have to level jump during WEC somehow. If you leveled normally during combat, you would be past WEC to use the ability again. BUUUUT, I see what you are going for.
2) True, but it is the #1 asked question about the card and there hadn’t been any similar reasons to possibly put a HT into your Sensei.*shurgs*
3) Ko beans, just checking in case somebody pokes me about it.
Chippy
I wanted to avoid situations where you could auto-level with Wheelo and then get another anger power.
1) I assume to prevent shenanigans involving leveling up with some WEC power, and then getting another’s power in addition to that from the next level. Similar to how MBS Goku has it.
2) No need to clarify no HTs, as the rules already don’t allow that.
3) I would assume so, but I don’t think it’d affect anything.
I think the level 3 would be more fun if it had some sort of effect to switch powers with your opponent. So you could pick one that they would be terrible with and give them that while you use theirs. I do like these ones alot too though.
I always envisioned Ginyu as having a MP power to copy his opponent’s MP power. Or even a named card that would attach and allow him access to his opponent’s power.
I thought that too like an energy attack that was if successful switch personalty stacks with your opponent. And make it used once per-combat, that way your opponent could try to get his MP back.
There was a version of Ginyu where he had this ability for awhile, but it got axed. Not only was it a situation similar (yet opposite) of PTT, but the mirror was quite boring and lead to some really dumb rulings questions. “Well, if I copy your power, and then use your power to copy my power, can I use my “new” power to copy his power?””What happens if I copy PTT?” etc. etc. Not that wonky rulings ever stopped us from making cards before… =p
Chippy
Why can’t he use majin’s in his SD? There isn’t any deck building rule that he can’t have them in his deck. Is this to prevent a specific combo that you guys found?
There’s a pretty broke combo on page 48 of the Buu Saga rulebook.
I’m just gonna take your answer to mean that you just thought that villains couldn’t have heroes or majins in his deck. If you need help reading the crd that you guys have posted on your site, just let me know. Reading can be hard sometimes.
Yeah, can you point me to the part that supports your argument.
The following are all copy and pasted from your CURRENT RULINGS DOCUMENT:
Majin personalities cannot be played as allies unless the MP playing them is also a Majin. Majin MPs can only play Majin allies.
Majin Allies can only be used by a Majin Main Personality. Majin Main Personalities may only use Majin Allies.
Those are the only two instances where it states anything close to what we are talking about. You could argue that he can’t “use” them with his power and if that is what you were saying I wouldn’t argue with you. There is nothing preventing a villain or hero from using hero/villain/majin allies in his deck. There is also nothing preventing any personality from having hero/villain only or heritage only cards in his deck if he doesn’t have the correct alignment.
You are right about some things there, but the rulebook specifically states that you cannot have Majin in non-Majin decks. Is your argument that the most current rulebook is not a valid rulings document?
That is exactly why I am saying. If you want to start playing all games by the buu saga rulebook, double power rule is back. You edited the CRD to reflect not having a double power rule for a reason. The reason is because that is the ruling document that is used, not the buu saga rule book. There is a reason it is called the Current Rulings Document.
There are a couple more differences in the CRD and the buu saga rulebook that i can think of off the top of my head. Are we suppose to be following the buu saga rulebook or the CRD? If we followed the Buu Saga rulebook then the SD change is reverted back, preventing damage is changed back to z, and double power is back.
I am fine using either one, but you can only follow one and not both.
awesome rebuttle joshman – df did you forget about majin ally rules?
No I just know how to read. He can’t play majin allies. Nothing is preventing him from putting them in the sensei deck.
Except page 48 of the Buu Saga rulebook. Here is a link to the page. The third sentence lays it out in black and white specifically. “Majins can only be in a deck with a Majin MP…”
http://retrodbzccgcom.fatcow.com/2012/02/10/buu-saga-rule-book/48-to-49/
I see it there but you can’t go by the buu saga rule book when playing this game. You have to go by the Current Rulings Document. If you went by the Buu saga rulebook, you would have a double power rule and focused attacks being prevented by cards that prevent damage from both types of attacks. That isn’t a rule anymore. The CRD is the only rule book that can ever be used since it is the only current one we have.
Id rather have some decent attacking powers for ginyu, I am pretty biased tho i dont like any CCPs that dont help give me hand adv or increase my anger. Also would rocked to of had a ginyu transfer attack that was ginyu only where you could just switch mps with your opponent.
“Having access to some really great powers, like Broly’s, Android 17′s, Dr. Wheelo’s and Zarbon’s can really help you jump up to Lv. 3 as fast as you can.” Where on the card does it say you can use other personalities other than Goku, Bulma, or Froug? What am I missing?
You can put any allies into your sensei deck that you want with Retro’s rules. They added the clause solely for the purposes of allowing hero allies in there.
Interesting!!
Here is the rules on Majin allies word for word from the CRD:
Majin Personalities cannot be PLAYED as allies unless the MP playing them is also a Majin. Majin MPs can only play Majin allies.
It says only Majins can PLAY majin allies, as in put them in play. If you put them in your sensei deck you are not playing them. Just simply having them in a deck does not create an illegal deck. Much like you can play Frieza and put a Confrontation in your deck; you can just never actually use the card.
As pointed out above, the Buu Saga Rulebook specifically states that you cannot have Majins in yours deck if your MP is not a Majin. The rulebook is a valid rulings document and the CRD does not contradict it in this case, though for once the rulebook is actually more expansive than the CRD.
Then you should update the CRD to include this phrasing. Because if the rule book overrides the CRD then the banned restricted list is meaningless. You can’t just pick and choose or mix and match lines from the two things. You have to decide which takes precedent because the CRD and the rule book say two completely different things.
We use both, as stated on the rules page. The CRD DOES overrule the rulebook, but it’s not doing it here. There is no ruling in the CRD that overrules what is in the rulebook in this instance.
Listen guys, there’s no ambiguity here so it’s the last I’ll say on the subject.
I don’t agree with you but I can see where your argument is coming from. I’m done.
+1. The CRD is only there to clarify or overrule things from the Rulebook, and was never meant to be the de-facto “every single rule of the game can be found here.” source (although at one time there was a group trying to do that).
But this brings up an interesting idea: Why not make a “comprehensive Retro” rulings document? Basically take the CRD and add in the stuff that’s missing. That way Retro could have a comprehensive document containing everything on how to play the game (including updated banned/restricted, etc), while still being able to preserve the original CRD for those that want to play w/ the old rules. Might be too big of a project, tho.
I would agree with Chippy. Given this precedent, besides having to take a 50 page CRD with me to every event I have to print out and carry a 50+ page Buu saga rule book and have to flip back and forth between the two in order to catch every ruling semantic I think the event organizers may impose.
That or you could just, you know, learn the rules, play the game and stop complaining. Just a thought. When in doubt people, apply common sense. It’s not hard folks. Sheesh
50/50. Wording is a huge issue in this game and has always been. I still believe those Straining attacks in Saiyan saga that state ‘Forces your opponent to loose 3 life cards’ are unstoppable attacks since they are the only ones worded that way.
We’ll I’ve never loosed an opponent 3 life cards, so maybe the wording is tricky.
I have had the spirit of the Earth heal me. It wasn’t immediate though.
I have a question, as the good ol’captain’s power is now how does it work with jumping and lowering MP levels. Like normally you have a power (attack) you use it, advance a level and you have a new power you can use, but he copies an ability, so do the affects of the power roll over with him? Like if he is rocking Broly anger gain does that stay active till the end of combat no matter what level he becomes? Or does it just become blank till the next combat?
I’m curious how Ginyu works with personalities such as the new virtual Vegeta, which states “while Vegeta is in control of combat” as a requirement to use the “discarding cards to attacks” feature.
Is every personality’s reference to itself by name understood to be changed to “Captain Ginyu” for the purposes of Ginyu’s power, or would cards such as these just not work with Ginyu?
Hey guys! I also posted this on the Captain Ginyu Level 3 page, but figured it would not hurt to post here too.
Me and my friend have been testing out the new set of Captain Ginyu’s like crazy because my friend loved the Ginyu force and this seemed like a really fun idea. I was wondering if it would be possible to look in to one slight change though? During the testing we tend to find out that the deck runs out of Allies in the Sensei deck too fast if we play anything but Elder Kai and he sucks, because we need some things in the sideboard, Dragonball tech and what not like Sensei Deck only cards, then we also need allies in there of course for Ginyu’s ability, so we usually go with North Kai, as he has 13 and a great ability, We usually use 4 spots for Dragonball tech and Sensei only and the other 9 for allies, even with the second Ginyu having the ability to bring back some we find we are not on that level long enough because the deck really wants to be on the level 3 with this ability, problem is, this ability can only be used once or twice by the time we get to this level as we exhaust the rest of the allies getting there. I feel that the part of the ability from the level 2, “Your attacks from personality powers and Captain Ginyu named cards gain “If successful and you Sensei Deck is not at maximum size, place one card from your removed from game pile into your Sensei deck”” Should also be on the level 3, I understand this would make the level 3 one heck of a text monster but I feel that this would by no means make him OP but very playable. Would love to hear any ideas you guys might have on this, or any more ideas that could be used! Thanks guys!
I always assumed that the fact that this text was missing on the level 3 was a nod to “Captain Ginyu Frog”, and was a subtle encouragement to use that card to lower one’s own MP level if the clause on the level 2 was needed. This doesn’t really address the issue you bring up, but I had always been curious about that.
Regarding giving that ability to the level 3, admittedly, I haven’t play tested this personality an overwhelming amount, but I would worry that giving Ginyu’s powers the “if successful” effect on top of allowing him to use the power an additional time per combat would just be too much. The “if successful” effect would become too easy to activate. Just my two cents.
I understand your hesitation regarding Elder Kai, but I say, if you must, you must. There was a contingent of players running Elder Kai with Baba this year at Gencon and I believe pretty much all of them did well. So somebody got some good use out of him.
You’re concerns are simply part of deck building. This is how things are kept balanced. If you are using more than 2 combats to get to level three, then you need to look at how your deck is built. With Broly, and Zarbon or Dr. Willow, you should be there in two combats.
Also, Elder Kai is not bad in some decks. Ginyu is one of them. As mentioned, three Baba decks used Elder Kai at Gencon. Two of them made top cut and all three went 4-2 in Swiss. Using the right allies in Elder Kai will give you access to plenty of good tech.
Between all of the Virtual Ginyu Force allies and Bojack’s allies, you should be covered. As mentioned Ginyu Frog can drop you from lv. 3 back to lv. 2 to restock your sensei deck, but Supreme Kai’s Ki Push will as well, besides giving you an awesome power. Copying Android 14 at lv. 2 will let you put multiples back in at level two in a single combat as well. And once you pack the Ginyu guys and Bojack’s guys, you can then add Zarbon, Dr. Willow and Broly to level up, then round it out with some control allies with King Cold, Android 16 and virtual Garlic Jr.
The thing people look at with Elder Kai is that he “has no power”. But in Ginyu, you really can have 21 different unique powers on him per combat. That’s how I look at it.